http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40243240#40243240
這討論串最一開始提到,今年開始skarner比去年少出現了80%
Riot對這件事作了分析,認為skarner有下面的特色
This is crazy how much good feedback you guys have lol. I can barely keep up
with the thread. I'm seeing a few things popping up in almost every post.
各位的良好意見真是太棒啦!我都很難跟上大家的討論啦!
在每篇文章內我差不多都能看到下面這些重點:
-Skarner's ult is AWESOME (jawesome?) and it is his defining ability
-Skarner is very mana dependent and without blue he suffers
-Skarner is very easily kited
-Getting permaslowed by Skarner is frustrating
-Skarner's E ability (Fracture) doesn't feel useful/can be somewhat clunky to
use
-Other junglers (zac/j4/voli etc) are more reliable in ganking and teamfightsAm I missing anything?
Skarner的大絕太棒啦!根本是這隻角色的核心!
Skarner非常的吃魔,沒藍會很想死
Skarner太容易被放風箏啦
被Skarner永久緩速感覺很糟
Skarner的(E)水晶塵爆感覺不太好用,用起來感覺頓頓的
其他的打野角(扎克,嘉文,熊)在團戰和Gank時更可靠
我還漏了啥嗎?
===============================================================
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40244777#40244777
這篇是技能修改方向,降低法耗,讓skarner比較不容易被kite
可是相對的也讓被他粘上的敵人比較好脫逃
主要目標是讓skarner不再是只有餓死或肥死的兩種狀態.
Ok, it seems like we are in pretty near agreement about Skarner's problems.
He is definitely still a fun character, so we are not going to scrap his kit
or something severe like that. I think a combination of a few good changes
could really bring him back into a nice sweet spot as a viable champ.I am going to try these changes out and do some playtesting to see how they
affect him. No guarantees that these are the right changes or the ones that
will end up being in the final set.
I think a really powerful change that would make Skarner's kit more clear in
its usage and counterplay would be to focus the W and E abilities more for a
single purpose each. W can be his defensive and gap closing ability
exclusively. Inversely, E can be more focused as a brawling/jungle
clearing/damaging ability.
ok,看起來我們對skarner的問題有了共識.
他依然是個有趣的角色,所以我們沒打算廢掉他的技能組,或是作一樣嚴重的事.
我想只需要結合一些好的修改,就能夠讓他回到可用的英雄的行列.
我打算試看看這些修正,並作一些實戰測試,來看這些修正會怎麼影響他.
不保證下面的修正是完整的調整,或是會是最後的結果.
我想只要讓Skarner的(W)結晶骨骼和(E)水晶塵爆目標功能更明確,
並讓對線的玩家知道怎麼反制,就會是個有力的修正.
(W)可以作為防禦和縮短距離之用,而(E)可以專注在清野/對戰和傷害上.
Overall
-Overall mana costs reduced (probably looking at E first its super costly)
整體-整體法耗下降(可能會先把E的超高法耗調整)
Q
-Hopefully removing permaslow by making the slow only occur on every other Q
instead of all Qs after the first. To balance the loss in slow duration here,
I want to make it a much stronger slow that decays over time but leaves gaps
for people to counterplay. Hopefully this will be fun for skarner players too
because they can now make some smart decisions when they want to use the new
more powerful Q slow.
Q-水晶斬擊
透過讓Q每兩次觸發一次緩,能讓Q不再是永久緩速.
為了修正喪失的緩速時間,之後(Q)的緩速會變的更緩,
但是隨時間消弱,讓敵人有一點脫逃的機會.
希望這裡的修正能讓Skarner的玩家也覺的更有趣,
因為你能更為了幾時要用出強力的緩速Q作出聰明的選擇.
W
-Increase the movespeed buff so that it is closer to other similar champs
like Udyr and Volibear
-Possibly make the movespeed ramp up over time so its not too powerful of an
escape "get out of jail free" ability
-Lower cooldown back to 14s from 18s like it was a few patches ago
-Strengthen the shield amount/AP ratios (to compensate for the loss of heal
from E)
-Remove attack speed from the W buff
W-結晶骨骼
增加速度讓他跟烏迪爾和佛力貝爾的加速更相近.
可能讓跑速隨時間增加,讓這個技能不是完美的脫逃技能
CD從18秒下修到14秒,就更前幾次修正掮一樣
盾值和AP加成都增加(為了彌補水晶塵爆的回血取消了)
移除(W)的攻速加成
E
-Instead of the heal, proccing the E mark on targets will now give skarner
his attack speed buff
-Increase total damage, but split it up so that only some is up front and the
rest happens when you proc the mark
-Reduce mana cost
-Look into better usability (faster projectile, faster cast, etc) may be one
or all of these
E-水晶塵爆
攻擊被水晶塵爆打到的目標不再回血,但給Skarner攻速buff
增加整體傷害,但是把傷害分一部份給觸發攻擊被(E)打到的目標
降低法耗
想辦法調的更好用(子彈飛快一點,施放速度快一點),可能是其中一樣或是全改
R
-Fix more edge cases so that the R will reliably go off on targets once it
has been cast
R-蠍尾穿刺
修正大絕發動時會被取消的的一些極端情況
These are still very much work in progress, and I still want your input on
how you feel about these changes. I will also keep coming back to fill you
all in on how these changes feel in internal playtesting.
這邊的修正都還在運作之中,而且我還是很想看看大家對這些修正的想法.
在我實際測試過後我也會回來讓大家知道這些修正玩起來的手感如何.
==============================================
07/31更新
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40278974#40278974
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40289932#40289932
昨天到今天設計師那組技能更動作的一些測試的想法
(他把昨天的內容實測後,回美服版上講想法,主要資訊分兩篇,我整理起來XD)
1.把Q的緩速改成爆發性的強力緩速,但不再是永久緩速,測試結果還不錯.
skarner因為這樣感覺變強,而敵人有機會利用技能逃掉
2.不過因為把Q的緩速改成一次有一次沒有玩家很難控制好,增了很多複雜度
3.W的速度Buff讓Skarner不像以前一樣這麼容易被風箏
4.E的改變讓這技能感覺更強了,
但是有施法時間的遠程法術對skarner近戰的角色來講有點奇怪,
所以E可能需要整個大改.
基於上面的觀察結果,和(美服官網)版上其他人的回應,今天會下面的新測試
Q
將用法改回只要有了水晶充能後就一直有的狀態
把緩速從充能後的Q拿掉(移到E上)
水晶充能後的Q每次都能增加skarner的攻速,最多能疊三次!
W
CD改成14秒(18->14)
跑速增加( 15/17/19/21/23 ->30/35/40/45/50 )(一級就比以前高)
盾值因為(E)不再補血,所以增加
跑速加成前三秒會慢慢增加,三秒後達最大跑速,並持續三秒(一共六秒)
E
CD一樣是10秒(配上被動實際上常常會是五秒一發)
現在不再是線性的遠程攻擊
現在改成下次普攻會作用在目標和目標背後的敵人(像Vi的E一樣)
被擊中的人都會帶水晶能量的dubuff
帶debuff的人再被打到會緩速
緩速是80%,持續3秒,會遞減
不再有額外的攻速(移到Q上)
說明
-把緩速從Q移到E上創造了更可靠和合需求的緩速,這對skarner來講
也多了決定幾時要用出緩速的判斷
-把E改成下次普攻時噴出也和這個技能的需求較為相符.
skraner作為近戰角,之前這個技能完全就不是一個有用的遠程poke/nuke技能.
我需要這個普攻重至的技能也能和被動好好的配合.
-把攻速移到Q是因為Q是個持續傷害/戰鬥用的技能.它需要一點時間來暖機,
當發動後skarner能透過被動來降低其他技能的CD
-我依然覺的把補血拿掉,增加盾的威力是個好的修正,目前為止我還滿喜歡這點的,
但是我可以明顯聽到大家對這點的抱怨.
我會再對這些修正多作些測試,並在有新資訊時帶來好消息.
有了上面的修正,他在6級前的gank更有力.他也在遊戲後期加入團戰時變的更可靠.
把補血從E拿掉讓我們能作一些強力的修正,像是明顯的降低E的法耗,
因為之前如果沒有高法耗,那這個技能可能會提供太多的生存力.
另外這也讓我們能夠加強(W)的盾,這讓skarner的高跑速能維持更久.
如果這樣的修改讓skarner完全不適合打上路,我們能夠再把補血放回來.
=============================================================
08/06更新
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40464888#40464888
Hey guys, sorry for the long silence. Stuff is going really well for Skarner over here, and I may have more updates soon. We have done a bunch of playtests on the new kit and are getting lots of good feedback.
嘿,好久沒出現真是抱歉.skarner的相關事務正在良好的演變中,我可能很快會有新的資料來更新.
我們這陣子對修正過的技能組作了很多實玩測試,並且得到了很多良好的反饋.
Coupling the attack speed with the Q has been super well received. It feels very natural and his ramping threat/brawling feels stronger than ever.
把Q和加攻速綁在一起感覺超棒的.這用起來感覺很自然,並且讓他作為強力威脅/決鬥者的感覺更勝於前.
W speed increase has also been very effective in making him get into fights more consistently but not without some effort still.
W的多的跑速讓他能更一貫的加入戰場(應該是相對於之前沒用閃現很難加入戰場),不過我們還能再多作一點努力.
E is a mixed bag, and we are still testing around with a few different versions of the spell. Some liked the on next hit version of the ability, some were lukewarm to it. I'll update if we come to any resolutions. I have seen a few good ideas on here for the E as well that I might try out.
E的狀況就有點複雜,我們還在測試這個技能的許多不同版本.有些人喜歡下次普攻時觸發的版本,但有些人不這麼愛.
我會在我們得到解法後回來更新,而我對E也有一些想測看看的新想法.
The changes to R have been 100% awesometown. Everyone feels like it is more consistent and meeting the players expectations when they activate the ability.
R的變化100%的讓人驚豔.每個人都覺的現在更有一制性,並且在發動這個技能時和自己的期待相同.
I too would like some new Skarner skins... I'll see what we can do.
我自己也很期待能有新的skarner造型...我會看看能作否作些什麼.
PS.美服論壇上一篇有提到E的80%遞減的緩速和skarner需要長期追上敵人的打法不這麼相合.
現在改成固定緩40/45/50/55/60%三秒.不過還在測試中.
============================================================
2013/08/14更新
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40675264#40675264
Hey all, back with some more details. We're trying out an iteration of the E that is a bit more like the old E in usage but there are some other changes that help it fit nicely into his new gameplay pattern.
嘿,我帶回了更多細節!我們試著持續修改(E)讓他在作用上更像是舊的E,
但會配上其他的變更幫這個技能更能融入現有的技能組中
-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s
-最新改版的E跟現在大家玩的E一樣,是個直線的轟擊技能
-射程增加了20%!
-寬度降低了20%
-對受這個技能傷害的目標直接造成緩速(30/35/40/45/50)的效果2.5秒
(他後來又補充說新的E法耗比舊的少很多)
The goals here were to retain the fun and diverse gameplay of the line nuke. The free targeting and skillshot feel of the E is a nice change of pace from Skarner's other melee focused abilities. We're also trying a longer/slow/less wide projectile so that targets of the E have the opportunity to dodge it (counterplay).
這次的目標是要保持直線轟擊這種玩法的樂趣.
不需要指定目標的指向技配合E和它其他技能可以好好的配合.
我們也在嘗試較長/較慢/較窄的投射讓敵人比較有機會能夠躲掉這個技能(作為反制法)
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40686564#40686564
Sightless66 I really appreciate your thoughtful post. You are pretty spot on with a lot of your predictions. Keep in mind that with any of the losses in power there are gains in other areas. (we want him to be played more)
網友Sightless66我非常感謝你週到的回應.你預測的相當準確.
請注意當我們在任何移除skarner任何力量時,都會在其他地方加回來.
(我們希望更多人玩他!)
-His pre 6 ganks seem to just be all around better. Even in the case where you are ganking a lane with good initiate, you can just save the E for when their CC wears off.
skarner在6級之前的gank各方面都比之前好很多.如果你是在個有了很不錯開局的gank情況下,
你能夠把E留給有場控的英雄在他們場控完後再追上.
-There is a noticeable hunger in the midgame for ability points because he now uses 4 abilities instead of 3. Choosing to max W or E first is viable, and it depends if you want the more consistent speed/defenses or stronger damage/slow. It is a good thing that he doesn't max out around level 12, and can keep growing all the way into late game.
在遊戲中期會想要有更多的技能點數可以用,因為他現在有四個技能而不是三個.
不管是先把(W)或(E)升滿都是合理的選擇,而且是依你想要有更多的速度/坦力或是更強的傷害/緩速來決定.
不用讓成長被限制在12級之前(現在線上的版本)是件好事,而且他能夠隨著等級成長到遊戲後期.
-Like you thought, his ability to permanently slow and stick to tanky characters is less. This isn't actually a big problem because his brawling ability with Q and attack speed is still very strong, and when your target tries to run, you can use E to close the gap. The power of having a ranged slow makes his chasing ability as good if not better than before.
就如同你想的,他能夠持續緩速敵人並粘在近戰身邊的能力來說是變弱了.
不過這並不是個很大的問題,因為他在有了(Q)的加攻速後近戰能力變的相當強.
而當你的目標開始想跑時,你能夠用(E)來拉近距離.
有個遠程的緩速能力讓他的追擊能力可能比之前更強大.
-As for late game teamfights we have seen that the ranged slow is actually very useful for peeling because Skarner can actually dive on the back line and still throw Es in any direction to peel for his back line. It seems like a net neutral change in his ability to peel for his team. The more significant difference in late game teamfights is the R, which is now much more reliable once you have gotten in range of your target.These changes are still being evaluated, and everything you all say is very high on my radar. I'll let you know if we make any other changes.
到了後期的團戰我們看到遠程的緩速在削弱敵人這點上是很強的,
因為Skarner能夠衝到敵人後排並往任何方向丟(E)來保住自家的後排.
這邊的修正很感覺很自然的就把他的技能改成能夠為隊友降低敵人的能力.
後期最大的改變是他的大絕,現在只要你能接近想拉住的敵人,它就會比之前更可靠.
這邊的修正都還在演化中,而你所說的每句話對我來說都很重要.如果有其他修正,我們會讓你知道.
======================================================================
08/21更新
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40878390#40878390
Hey all. This thread has been so incredibly helpful, you all have been having
huge impact on this Skarner rework so far. We are getting more and more happy
with each new version and I wanted to provide an update of where we are at.
Skarner feels like a much more reliable pick with these changes, and I think
he will gain a lot of his old glory back when you all have a chance to play
him.
嗨~這討論串超有用的!你們提到的內容都對skarner的修正有很大的影響!
當每次有新的版本的時候,我們都感到越來越開心,而我也要再次分享一下目前進度.
隨著這些變動,skarner感覺更像是一個可靠的變動,
而且我覺的當玩家開始玩他的時候,會感到他回到了過往光榮的時光.
Overall, his ability to engage in ganks, mid game skirmishes, and late game
team fights is increased. He is still able to brawl and 1v1 very well and his
jungle clear times are slightly improved. The E is an essential part of his
kit now, and it has opened up a lot of interesting new plays that Skarner can
make. One of the most important things is that, for us old Skarner players,
he still feels like the Skarner we know and love.
整體來講,他在gank時開戰的能力,中期的戰略性和後期團戰性能都有成長.
他依然能夠埋身戰鬥並且單挑的不錯,而他的打野速度也有所增加.
(E)技現在是他的核心技能之一,而且這也讓Skarner多了一些能利用的新玩法.
而最重要的是,對於舊的skarner愛好者來講,新的skarner還是和他們所愛的一樣.
Full changelist:
Base Attack speed lowered by 1%
基本攻速下降1%
Crystal Slash (Q)
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, gives skarner an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up
to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8%
-Slow removed (moved to E)
(Q)法耗降低 20/22/24/26/28->16/18/20/22/24
(Q)當有目標被集中,skarner攻擊加速4/5/6/7/8 % 6秒,能堆疊三次
(Q)緩速移到(E)上
Exoskeleton (W)
-Attack speed component removed (moved to Q)
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased to 24/28/32/36/40% and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8
(W)攻速移到(Q)上
(W)CD下降(18->14)
(W)最大速度增加到(24/28/32/36/40%),不過需要3秒加速到最高速度
(W)總時效維持在6秒
(W)盾值增加(70/115/160/205/250 -> 75/125/175/225/280)
(W)盾值AP系數增加(0.6->0.8)
Fracture (E)
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 40/45/50/55/60
-Heal removed (power moved into W shield)
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50% for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90
-Missile speed reduced 1800->1700
(E)法耗下降(50/55/60/65/70->40/45/50/55/60)
(E)回血移除(把威力改到W的盾內)
(E)被擊中的目標緩速 30/35/40/45/50% 2.5秒
(E)震波距離增加(800->1000)
(E)震波寬度下降(120->90)
(E)震波速度下降(1800->1700)
Impale (R)
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation
(R)大絕發動後還沒刺到人之前的動畫時間會把目標綁在原地
Anything not mentioned in the changelist is the same. Numbers are still not
locked down so don't sweat the small details.-Team Skarner
這份列表內沒提到的部份都是保持原案.數值還在調整中所以不要在小細節上太深入
-skraner團隊
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